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Bible Query from 2 Thessalonians August 2014 version. Copyright (c) Christian Debater(tm) 1997-2014. All rights reserved except as given in the copyright notice.
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Q: In 2 Thess 1:3 and 1 Thess 1:2, how could Paul always thank God for them?
A: Paul almost every day thanked God for them in prayer. We should do the same for fellow Christians.
Q: In 2 Thess 1:4 (KJV), should we glory in others?
A: The Greek word translated "glory" in the King James can also mean boast, or rejoice in. Yes, we should share in the joys of others. A person might feel happy when the children, parents, or other blood relatives do well. Similarly, we should feel happy if our brothers and sisters, related to us by Christ’s blood, do well.
Q: In 2 Thess 1:5 and 1 Thess 2:12, since we are saved by grace through faith, how are we counted worthy of God’s kingdom?
A: We are counted worthy in our goal, position, and striving.
Experiential: 1 Thessalonians 2:12 says that our goal is to walk worthy, just as we are to aim for perfection in 2 Corinthians 13:9,11.
Positional: 2 Thessalonians 1:5 explicitly states that their expressions of faith are evidence (tokens in KJV) of God’s righteous judgment counting them worthy. It is God’s declaration that counts them worthy, and their expressed faith is the evidence, not the cause. See The Bible Knowledge Commentary : New Testament and More Hard Sayings of the New Testament p.112-114 for more info.
Striving: Christian life on earth involves striving towards the goal of making our experience in God, match our position in God.
Q: In 2 Thess 1:6,8, does God pay back people with trouble and take vengeance on people?
A: Yes. Sometimes God disciplines people in this life. He also punishes in the next life. Some may appear to get off easy in this life (Habakkuk 1; Psalm 73; 37:1; Job 21:7), God’s punishment is fair, for He is an impartial judge, as 1 Peter 1:17 says.
Q: In 2 Thess 1:9, will the ungodly suffer forever, or will they be destroyed?
A: Both.
1. Hell is eternal punishment in Matthew 25:41,46. Satan and others will be tormented forever in Revelation 20:10.
2. It is perishing in Luke 13:3; John 3:15, 16, 10:28 and others. It is everlasting destruction in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, and unbelievers will be destroyed in 1 Corinthians 6:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Revelation 11:18; and other verses.
3. No verse in the Bible says people are annihilated.
How can both 1 and 2 be true? See When Critics Ask p.493-494, When Cultists Ask p.297, and the next question.
Q: In 2 Thess 1:9, how can the ungodly both suffer forever and be destroyed?
A: First, see the answer to the previous question. It could be in two possible ways, or it could be both.
1. Ruins: Since many earthly things can be destroyed and still exist. These provide crude examples of how people can be destroyed and still exist forever. Cars can be destroyed and then sent to the junkyard. A house can be destroyed by fire, and then the charred remains bulldozed and hauled away. Finally, the ungodly still exist, even after their bodies are destroyed.
2. Asymptotes: Something can be in the process of being made non-existent, and yet the thing can still be eternal because the process takes forever. For example, say that every year the size of a thing decreases by one-half. How many years will there be until the size is exactly zero? The answer is an infinite number of years. I have not seen anything in the Bible that either supports or contradicts this speculation about asymptotes.
Some who teach what is essentially the asymptote view present it as an alternative to the traditional view (ruins). However, these views complement each other, and showing the reasonableness of the asymptote view does nothing to detract from the traditional view.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:2, were others writing fraudulent letters in the name of Paul? How do we know that Paul’s letters in our Bible are genuine?
A: We trust the letters are genuine for two main reasons.
1. God promised to preserve His word in Isaiah 55:10-11; Isaiah 59:21; Isaiah 40:6-8; 1 Peter 1:24-25; Matthew 24:35.
2. Confirmation by the early church writers, including Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:3, who is the man of lawlessness?
A: Most Christians see this as the Antichrist. However, Hard Sayings of the Bible p.661-663 has a different view; it says it is unclear; it could have referred to someone at that time, such as the Emperor Caligula, who set up a statue for the worship of himself as a god.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:3, does this prove that true Christianity was lost from the earth?
A: No, for two reasons. It does not say that all were deceived, and the Antichrist, the man of lawlessness, has not appeared yet.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:7, who is holding back the secret power of lawlessness?
A: 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 gives us four clues.
1. He was currently holding back the power of lawlessness, and will continue to do so until he is taken out of the way.
2. Eventually he will be taken out of the way.
3. At that time, the lawless one will appear.
4. Then Jesus will come and overthrow him.
This is likely an angel that is preventing the Antichrist from coming.
See Hard Sayings of the Bible p.663-664 for a different answer.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:11 should it be "a lie" (KJV) or "the lie"?
A: In 2 The 2:11, the word in Greek is spelled "Tau omega" which is "the". There are apparently no manuscript variations on this word.
"the lie" is how it is translated in Green's Literal translation, the NIV, NKJV, Wuest's Expanded Translation. The Expositor's Bible Commentary vol.11 p.328 also say "the lie".
"a lie" is what the KJV has.
"what is false" (in other words indeterminate whether the or a) NASB, uNASB, Holman Christian Standard Bible, and NRSV.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:11-12 and 1 Kings 22:4-24, why does the God of truth send delusions to people? (The Muslim apologist Ahmad Deedat brought this up.)
A: There is an important lesson to learn here.
1. God does not and cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18; Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2).
2. For those who have already refused to believe the truth, God permits them believe what they want.
3. God did not lie to them, but does permit lying spirits to send strong delusions in order that they would believe their chosen lies.
4. Just as seriously, Romans 1:18-32 shows that those who choose to exchange God’s truth for sin are given over to become more depraved.
5. Even in the midst of delusions, God still sees there is a way they know they have chosen to believe delusions. For example, Ahab was told he was being told a lie in 1 Kings 22:14-24.
See Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties p.410 and When Critics Ask p.495 for more info.
Q: In 2 Thess 2:15, should we hold to the traditions we have been taught? Didn’t the Pharisees do that?
A: Paul is speaking of what they saw the apostles do. He is not speaking of simple traditions of men, which Paul spoke against in Colossians 2:8.
Q: In 2 Thess 3:3, does God keep Christians from evil?
A: -Many times, yes. However, neither 2 Thessalonians 3:3 nor any other verse says God insulates us from every misfortune and temptation. (Just ask Job.) Instead, 1 Peter 1:5-6 says that we will have trials, but that God will shield us. 1 Corinthians 10:12-13 says that we will be tempted, but not beyond what we can bear.
Q: In 2 Thess 3:12 and Prov 30:24-25, should we save money for the future, or not take thought for the future as Mt 6:31,34 and Php 4:6 suggest?
A: Christians are to have balance, and there is a balance here. Proverbs mentions as exemplary the behavior of the ant that stores food for winter, we are to plan and save for the future. However, as Proverbs 31:21 shows, the noble wife has no fear for her family when it snows, because she has been working diligently to clothe them. Thus we should prepare for the future without being anxious or worrying about it. See Bible Difficulties and Seeming Contradictions p.237-238 for more info.
Q: In 1 Thess and 2 Thess, what evidence do we have that these books should be in the Bible?
A: There are at least three reasons.
1. Paul wrote it, and he was an apostle. Peter attested that Paul’s words were scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.
2. Paul himself said he was apostle in 1 Timothy 1:1; 2:7, Romans 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:1; 9:1, 2 Corinthians 1:1, 11:5; Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:1; 2 Timothy 1:1; Titus 1:1.
3. Evidence of the early church. See the next question for a few of the writers who referred to verses in 2 Thessalonians.
Q: In 2 Thess, how do we know that what we have today is a reliable preservation of what was originally written?
A: There are at least three good reasons.
1. God promised to preserve His word in Isaiah 55:10-11; Isaiah 59:21; Isaiah 40:6-8; 1 Peter 1:24-25; and Matthew 24:35.
2. Evidence of the early church. Here are a few of the writers who referred to verses in 1 and 2 Thessalonians.
Polycarp (110-155 A.D.) quotes half of 2 Thessalonians 3:15a (5 out of 9 Greek words) Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians chapter 11 p.35 110-155 A.D.
Justin Martyr (wrote c.138-165 A.D.) refers to the doctrine in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 in Dialogue with Trypho ch.11 p.253. This is not a quote or paraphrase though.
The Muratorian Canon (170-210 A.D.) ANF vol.5 p.603 mentions Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians, as well as Paul’s other 11 letters.
Irenaeus (182-188 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:11 as in the Second to the Thessalonians. Irenaeus Against Heresies book 4 ch.29.1 p.502. He also quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:4 as by Paul "in the second to the Thessalonians" ibid book 3 ch.7.2 p.420.
Clement of Alexandria quotes 2 Thessalonians 3:1,2 as by "the apostle" in the Stromata (193-202 A.D.) book 5 ch.3 p.448
Tertullian (198-220 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 1:4 as by Paul to the Thessalonians in Scorpiace ch.13 p.646
Tertullian (198-220 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:4b in A Treatise on the Soul ch.57 p.234. He also quotes 2 Thess 1:6-8 and 1:8-9 as by the apostle in Five Books Against Marcion book 5 ch.16 p.464
Hippolytus (225-235/6 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 as by Paul Treatise on Christ and Antichrist ch.63 p.218
Adamantius (c.300 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 as "by the same apostle". Dialogue on the True Faith second part ch.824B p.81-82. (Adamantius is speaking)
Victorinus of Pettau (-304 A.D.) quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:8 as by Paul writing to the Thessalonians. Commentary on the Apocalypse from the First chapter ch.16 p.345.He also quotes parts of 2 Thessalonians 2:7,8,9,10,11 in Commentary on the Apocalypse From the Eleventh chapter ch.7 p.354
Victorinus of Pettau (-304 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 1:2 according to The Greek New Testament 4th Revised edition by Aland et al. However, I have not been able to confirm this in the writings of Victorinus of Pettau that I have.
After Nicea
Josippus (4th century)
Basil of Ancyra (c.364 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 2:4
Athanasius (367 A.D.) lists the books of the New Testament in Festal Letter 39 p.552
Hilary of Poitiers (355-367/368 A.D.)
Synopsis Scripturae Sacrae (350-370 A.D. or 5th century) mentions Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians as part of the New Testament. It quotes all of 2 Thessalonians 1:1.
The schismatic Lucifer of Cagliari (370/371 A.D. or c.399 A.D.)
Basil of Cappadocia (357-378 A.D.)
Ambrosiaster (after 384 A.D.)
Cyril of Jerusalem (c.349-386 A.D.)
Ambrose of Milan (370-390 A.D.)
John Chrysostom (396 A.D.) wrote down five sermons on 2 Thessalonians, which we still have today. He said it was written by Paul in homily 3.
Didymus the Blind (398 A.D.)
Macarius/Symeon (4th or 5th century)
Epiphanius of Salamis (360-403 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 1:3
Rufinus (374-406 A.D.)
John Chrysostom (392-407 A.D.)
Severian (after 408 A.D.)
Niceta of Remesianus (366-c.415 A.D.)
Jerome (373-420 A.D.)
Augustine of Hippo (388-8/28/430 A.D.)
Hesychius of Jerusalem (-450 A.D.) (pronounced HESS-us) refers to 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Cyril of Alexandria (444 A.D.)
Speculum (fifth century)
Quodvultdeus (c.453 A.D.)
Theodoret of Cyrus (bishop and historian) (423-458 A.D.)
Varimadum (445/480 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 1:3; 2:8
Among heretics and spurious books
The heretic Marcion according to Tertullian
Apostolic Constitutions (uncertain date, about 380 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 2:8
The heretic Pelagius (416-418 A.D.)
The Donatist Tyconius (after 390 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 2:3,8
The Pelagian heretic Theodore of Mopsuestia (392-423/429 A.D.) refers to 2 Thessalonians 2:3
3. Earliest manuscripts we have of 2 Thessalonians show there are small manuscript variations, but zero theologically significant errors.
p30 1 Thess 4:12-13,16-17; 5:3,8-10,12-18,25-28; 2 Thess 1:1-2; 2:1,9-11 (early 3rd century)
p92 Eph 1:11-13,19-21; 2 Thess 1:4-5,11-12 (c. 300 A.D.) The Complete Text of the Earliest New Testament Manuscripts has a photograph of part of p92 on p.614.
Alexandrinus [A] c.450 A.D.
Vaticanus [B] 325-350 A.D.
Sinaiticus [Si] 340-350 A.D.
Claromontanus [D] 5th/6th century
Bohairic Coptic [Boh] 3rd/4th century
Sahidic Coptic [Sah] 3rd/4rth century
I Washington, D.C. 5th century
Gothic 493-555 A.D.
Italic [Ital] 4th to 13th centuries
Latin Vulgate [Vg] 4th and 5th centuries
Armenian [Arm] from 5th century
Georgian [Geo] from 5th century
Ethiopic [Eth] from c.500 A.D.
Peshitta Syriac [Syr P] 400-450 A.D.
Harclean Syriac [Syr H] 616 A.D.
See www.BibleQuery.org/2ThessMss.htm for more on early manuscripts of 2 Thessalonians.